Streamlining

What happens when people with different Ephesians 4 'five-fold' strengths gather and discuss a teaching? 

This month, our teaching is from Charity Bowman-Webb and is about 'Streamlining.' Have a listen in as Alan McWilliam (Cairn Movement), Lynsey Patterson (Forge Scotland) and Scott Brennan (Community of Aiden and Hilda, Cairn Movement) chat about the teaching from their own perspectives- what they enjoyed, what challenged them and even what they found difficult about listening to a teaching with a 'prophetic' style. 

Let's listen together and journey towards the fivefold ministry working together in synergy.

Transcript

Copy Transcript Copied

Hi, this is Alan McWilliam. And this is Charity Bowman-Webb. And we want to welcome you to the Synergy Sessions.Today we're launching our podcast with a teaching from Charity Bowman-Webb. Charity is one of the international directors for Streams Ministry and in particular she leads the area called Streams Creative House. Charity is teaching today on the subject of streamlining and we'll be discussing that with our guests today.The message I felt God gave me for you this morning was a message about a key dream that I asked God for. You know how at the beginning of the year you often ask God for a key dream or a key word or a rhema word for the year ahead. So I said, Lord, could you give me a kind of heads up for the year ahead with ministry, with Streams Creative House? What do you want us to do? And he gave me this one dream and he kept bringing me back to this dream.And eventually I realized this dream wasn't just for me or even just for Streams Creative House, that I felt like it had a layer. We like our layers of God's, you know those dreams where they're just layers and layers. There was an application for the wider church.So here's my dream. I'm not going to give you the entire dream. I'm going to give you the essence of it and let's see if, you know, the budding dream interpreters amongst you can pick up any layers I can.But in the dream I was with a group of Christian friends. It was actually the Streams family in Scotland and I went for a walk. I think we were on sort of a retreat or a gathering, a conference away from home.And I go for a walk. It's a beautiful forest. It's all green and lush, just like Dallas, really green and lush.And I come to a house that's kind of nestled between some beautiful greenery. And I look at the house and I think, oh, that's the house I grew up in. Except in the dream, it looks absolutely nothing like the house I grew up in.But you know how you do in dreams. You recognize the house and I think, gosh, I haven't seen that since I was like 15. And I wonder how it's changed.You know, it looks like it's been upgraded. And instead of a front porch, you know how you would have a porch where you take off your shoes, you take off your jacket and all that kind of stuff. Instead of a front porch, it's been converted into a kind of porch.It looks like a wide, beautiful porch area, but all the walls are glass. And what you're looking into, your first room before you go into the hall, is a bathroom. So as you approach this, everything's beautiful.As you approach the front door, you could literally see the toilet, which probably is a bit unnerving, isn't it? And then you could see the sink. And I'm aware that the front door is standing open. And I think in the dream, the owner's not in.I think they're away. You know, they've popped to the shops, but they seem to have left like you do in the country. The door unlocked and the door is open.And I feel it's a little bit cheeky, but I also think it's probably okay that I take a cheeky wee peek inside and see how the house has changed and how it's been upgraded. So I go in, I go through the bathroom, and I think, gosh, that's unusual to change the porch into a bathroom. And as I wonder through the rooms, through the living room, the kitchen, the bedrooms upstairs, what really strikes me about this house is it has a kind of similar interior scheme through the whole place.It's beautiful. There's lots and lots of white. But it reminded me of that kind of French interior style, where it's kind of like white, but slightly rustic and the wood is rustic.You know, that beautiful kind of crafted, slightly rustic wood, not all polished, but very chic, but very welcoming, very welcoming, very homely. But the sofas are white, the bed linen is white, the curtains are white. And here's the part I really liked.My husband will get this bit. It was really clean and tidy, really clean and tidy. Some of you knowwhat I'm saying.There was no clutter anywhere. It didn't feel unwelcoming. It still felt just very like you could come in and be at home, but there was no mess.There was no clutter. Everything was in its place. And then the lady of the house, jumping the dream, the lady of the house comes back.And what I watch her do is go into her kitchen and she starts to feed a bunch, like a stream of Christians that come in. They just casually start to show up. I recognize them as some of the ministry group I'm with.And there's other Christians too, and other people. And from her kitchen, she begins to feed them just simply like a nice cup of coffee. There's a lot of coffee going on.That's a good metaphor in a dream. There's a lot of just bowls of soup. It's another bit I really liked.There's no having to produce a three-course meal and have everybody to stay for the week. They just come. They're fed.They seem really happy. They seem satisfied. They're chatting to each other.They go and more come. And it's this easy flow of feeding many from her kitchen without... She's not stressed. There's no pressure.There's no... It's just an easy flow. The last bit of the dream that I think is very key is I go out... Oh, I haven't started my clock. That would be good, wouldn't it? John said, just keep going.He said, if it's three o'clock and you're still talking... Didn't you, John? So it's fine. So I go out. I think it's either a side door or a back door.And I'm suddenly on this beautiful old bridge, the kind that we would have in Britain. It's really old, and they're just like a little arch. And I look down, and there's a river flowing underneath.And it's really fast, like it's going for a really torrential kind of water, fast flowing underneath me. And I suddenly feel to say to the Lord, Lord, what number is this house again? And in big numbers, the number 45 flashes up on the river, clear as crystal, and just kind of flashes there. And then I wake up.So let's unpack this dream a little bit or the salient points. I believe that this dream, the sort of essence of this dream has a real encouragement and hopefully some clarity for the church. Some of this we'll know, but some of it might just encourage you as in a next phase.We're in a very strange season of the church, aren't we? We're in a completely different ball game than anything we knew before. And what I felt this dream, the name that God gave me for this dream, the essence of it and the title of the dream would be streamlining, which seems very appropriate for teaching at streams. But this essence of the house was white.The house was tidy. There was no clutter. There was no mess.There was no rubbish lying everywhere. It was very streamlined. There were bathroomseverywhere.Now, white, the color white often represents holiness, righteousness, I'm sure you guys know this, and purity. And the sort of bathroom that you come in through, it's like we cannot enter the true presence of God in this season without coming before him in holiness. We are supposed to be a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God's own special people.We are supposed to be like the Levitical priests of old, who as you know, if you've been at the conference, I'm sure you talked about the fact that you came to the brazen labor first in the tabernacle pattern. There you bring your sacrifices, which include repentance. You lay down your life like we just sang, that Kelly sang so beautifully as we did communion, God, we give you our all.That's a sacrifice. Daily, we make choices to bring our lives as a sacrifice before God. And they are burned on the altar as a sweet smelling savor to the Lord.Then the priests would wash in the laver, the bronze laver as a symbol of a cleansing, a washing of our lives, of their lives before they would minister to the King of Kings in the two inner chambers. They took it seriously. And in the Bible, we read where the Levitical priests messed about and they didn't take it seriously.It was not good and it was not okay before God. And that the Lord calls us this royal priesthood. He calls us the modern day priesthood.We are to come through a continual cleansing of our lives of just bringing that to the Lord as we enter the house of the Lord. Why would it be the house of my childhood? Now, I know I've done a lot of dream interpretation training. You know, the obvious one would be, well, it's just all about me and it's all about my history, but something didn't quite fit.And it was actually my husband who got this the other day. It was very clever. See, the house I grew up with in, the actual number of the house was not 45.It was number one. And he said, could this dream, this returning to your childhood home, number one, be the house of God, the church? Because, and that makes sense because the last, you know, the last two, three years, like many other people, we have been, as a streams family in Scotland, we've been on a very pioneering transitional journey. The whole model of church that we knew before that many of you knew before is changing like crazy.And as pioneers and prophetic people, we often get asked to go ahead into the fog, very uncomfortable and unnerving, but just part of the calling. And in a way, it was almost like God was saying in the dream, what does the church of the future look like? What am I doing through the transition? In this strange season that we've been in the last kind of, well, we're coming up for four years now. Some people are beginning to sort of describe, I think this is a good way to describe how it can feel, is almost like there's a wave of God, but it's pulled back out.Does that make sense? There's a kind of, as if the wave is out. You know, in his grace, we have seen waves of God hit the church in great measure many times, haven't we, through history, even when, even when there were plenty of things that needed cleaned up where the wave hit, even though people weren't in perfect alignment. I mean, who's perfect? None of us.But even when there were things that God knew needed cleaned up because he loves his people,the waves of glory would hit. But sometimes we use that to endorse what we were doing. Now, when the wave of God, this is just kind of how I've been seeing and feeling this journey of the last three, four years, is when the wave is pulled out, we feel a lack of the ease of God's presence falling.And many places I've ministered in the last few years, many different countries, people groups, Christian communities, I hear it's the same everywhere. Everywhere I go, they'll tell you and you'll go, yep, that's exactly what it's been like for us. You're not alone.Like this sense of feeling God's presence, hearing his voice is not as easy as it used to be. Does that make sense? And I think there's some really good reasons that God has done that. I believe because he loved his church, he sent waves of his glory when his people gathered.But because he loves his church, he's pulled the wave out so that we would feel the lack of his tangible presence. Why would he do that? To bring an awakening to his church, to allow a streamlining and a reordering. Because what it's doing, now I'm beginning to see three or four years on, what I'm beginning to see is through the fog, people are beginning to come through the fog with a new hunger, a new desperation for God, something much deeper than perhaps they had before.There's a hunger for his presence because they don't feel it as easily. So there's a digging deeper. At first it was like, oh, well, we can just all do church differently and it'll all be fine.And then people are like, well, actually it's not fine. We're still in this. There's another thing that the wave out season is creating and that's humility.Okay, God, we're not feeling your presence and your big glory bubbles as easy as we used towhen we didn't have to clean up quite so much of our stuff. But oh, now we don't feel it, but we desperately want it back. There's going through the bathroom.And the house in my dream had many bathrooms and they were all beautiful and pristine and clean. But there was a lot of bathrooms for a house that size. God is opening that way like the fire on the altar for us to come before God and just say, God keeps showing me what I need to get rid of.What does the church need to get rid of that we might come into the time of glory again? Whatever that will look like, it's really God's business. When the wave is out, we also as a church, a global church, can become more aware of what's going on in the world because we're not as distracted by wonderful waves of the presence. And we're seeing that as proof everywhere that believers are sometimes more focused on what's going on in the world and becoming more afraid of the shaking and the instability.I believe God is streamlining his church into the priesthood that he so wants us to be. I believe his streamlining or another way to put that would be clearing out. The things I'm really seeing, and I'm sure you are too, is he's clearing out or streamlining the walls of pride and misunderstanding between believers, between denominations, between ministries, between local churches.He's actually clearing away and streamlining the walls that have kept the local expression of the church and the translocal, the wider expressions of the church apart in certain nations. We've certainly experienced that in the UK because we're all the church. We're all the church of God.I believe God is streamlining the systems that are no longer working. There was a day when they were, but they've strayed from their original use or they've simply run their course and we're hanging on to them sometimes and God is streamlining them away to make new space. The evidence we see of that is that more and more people in the last few years have become disillusioned with systems they were perfectly comfortable with.Have you noticed that? They're just like, why don't I feel comfy with this anymore? Why when I returned to church after COVID, like it, you know, wanted it to go back to business as usual. I think I describe it a bit like this. It's as if we all returned to our favorite seat at church.You know our favorite seat that we always end up in? We don't want to, but let's face it, we do. It's a bit like we went back to our favorite seat, creatures of habit, but when we sat down it was like sitting on marbles and we couldn't quite get comfy. It wasn't quite like sitting on tacks, well it was for some of us, but just marbles.It's like who put the marbles there and you can't seem to get them off. Something is not as comfortable or feels as normal as it did before and God is doing that. God is doing that.God is streamlining the fear of man from his people. He is streamlining away the power plays within the church that have resulted in a fear of change, so we remain stuck in cyclical systems going round and round and round. We talk of change, but we don't actually do much with it.Round and round, we're stuck in our programs that sometimes are so, they're so time tight that they're airtight to the breath of the Spirit and God is streamlining that from his church. God is streamlining the wounds and the hurts within us, stuck within us as anyone else had fun with that the last few years. Who's going to escape this? No one that's going to follow Christ.We need to kneel to the streamlining of God. He is clearing away, streamlining the Christian idol culture of stars and stages because it has to go. It has to go.It is holding back the priesthood of all believers, I believe, because instead of the chosen few at the front who apparently bring all the anointing, what about the body? The body's anointed. Every single one of you is anointed and the only way we can see anointings and value and the beauty that believers carry within them is to stop making it about the chosen few at the front. I believe that's what God is doing.I believe from 2020 to this year we will stay in what people are, a phrase people are calling the word for transition would be a liminal space. I'm sure many of you have heard these are terms that are now being quite openly taught and a liminal space just means it's the now and the not yet. We can't go back because there's marbles on our seats.We're moving through the fog but we don't quite know what the future looks like yet, am I right? And many will stay in that liminal space longer than others depending on how they respond to God. Some will enter that liminal space later than others because we journey at different times and I think the pioneers and the particularly the prophetic people of God, we're kind of wired to go ahead. That's just the way we're wired to investigate the future paths before they're a highway that everybody sees as normal and so some of us have been in this for years already and others I experience as I minister in different places, they're deep in the fog.They're deep in the liminal space. What is going on? Our church, some of our church denominations are imploding. They are shrinking like crazy in different nations.They certainly are in the UK and leaders are going through a really hard time. Good leaders, good men and women of God deep in the liminal space. It's not a comfortable space to be.You don't want to build a house there and have a house warming party. You just want to get through and get out as quick as possible but this is not a quick season, is it? It's not a quick season. I believe that we are moving through the streamlining.There was confusion. COVID caused massive global confusion. Then it caused displacement.Things were shaken up. People started to move around. People had all different kinds of theories on why Christians were moving around but people are moving everywhere, displaced.Then we had to come through disillusionment and some of us still are disillusionment that the familiar that made us feel safe is no longer there. That's disillusionment. Then there's the grief of loss but where is what we knew and what was comfy and many have lost people they actually loved, churches they loved, things they loved as God has moved them sometimes geographically displacing people around the globe.We're having to come through the time of great testing, the streamlining, the fire on the altar. Will we stand in our faith as Christians when things are rocky and we are being streamlined as a global church? Will we stand? How deep is our faith? Now here's the good news. That's enough barbecuing because that's not comfortable.So let's move through into what is God? Here's what I it's a prophetic message this morning. Here's what I felt God was showing me is coming through the streamlining. If we will allow God to streamline us as individuals and as a corporate body in our local expressions, our national expressions and our international expressions of the church.Well let's return to the number 45. God kept taking me back into this number. Now remember 45flashed up really really big numbers on a very fast flowing river.What do you think the river meant? Come on dream interpreters. It's not that hard. Yeah it's the river of God but the river wasn't stagnant or still moving or quietly moving.It was absolutely gushing almost like a bit of a waterfall. You see many times we're like oh we're just longing for a move of God. The wave is out.Oh that God would move like the days of old but God is moving and hopefully we're going to comethrough this streamlining to see the glory of God released upon the earth in greater measure. Ibelieve that's what's going on. Streamlining means it would be a form or a design that is made insuch a way that it causes the least amount of resistance to air or water.That it would move with more speed and more efficiency. Streamlining an organization or a system, let's think of the church now, would be to cause something to work more efficiently, to work better. Now that's powerful if you think about if God is streamlining his church what would air and water often represent in the Bible? We just talked about the river.It's a move of the Holy Spirit. Air, fast moving wind, the wind of the Spirit. That we would be streamlined into a church that has less resistance to the Holy Spirit.Over this fast moving river of God, God is moving. We're in stage one at the moment. We're coming through the things I've listed, the things that he is streamlining.I felt the number 45 were keys, keys to get in that river because the number was in the river.What's going to happen? What are we going to see God do if we allow that streamlining of God, if we get in that river? First, I believe we are going to see God restore the fear and the awe and the wonder of God to the church. We know that's happening already.You guys are streams, you know this. The scriptures that God kept taking me to had a four and a five in them because God kind of likes that kind of mysterious jigsaw type stuff. I'm not really good at memorizing numbers.I just don't have that kind of brain. I'm great with faces. I'm great with visuals.I'm great with words, but numbers, uh-uh. So when he said, look up, you know, Psalm 45 and this 45, I had no idea what it was going to say. So this was exciting.Psalm 45, six to eight. Your throne, oh God, is forever and ever. A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of your kingdom.You love righteousness. You hate wickedness. Therefore, God, your God has anointed you with the oil of gladness more than your companions and all your garments are scented with myrrh and aloes and cassia.This speaks of the fear and the wonder and the awe of God returning to his church. Dear goodness, do we need that? Do we need the fear of God that he is actually in charge in case we'd forgotten that he has a throne and he is the king of all kings? But then the next piece, we've been anointed with the oil of gladness more than people that don't know him. The joy of the Lord is ourstrength.So even amongst the shaking and all the stuff that's going on, he's going to anoint us with the oil of joy and give us his strength. All our garments are scented with myrrh and aloes and cassia, the bride of Christ being prepared for her husband. The fragrance of God is the presence of God.It is God with us. This is for believers and Christian communities, expressions of the body of Christ that submit to the streamlining. This is the next piece.This is the good news. If we will allow God to streamline us, this is what's going to happen next. Isaiah 45.Now I felt to go in from kind of 1b, we usually call it halfway through and make it personal for you. So I'm going to read this to you as the body of Christ. If we allow the streamlining, Isaiah 45, I will subdue the nations before you and disarm kings to open doors before you so gates remainunclosed.I will go before you and I will level the mountains. Bronze doors I will shatter and iron bars I will hack through. I will give you the hidden treasures, riches stashed away in secret places so that you may recognize I am the Lord.There's the awe again. Verse 5 to 7. I will strengthen you though you've not acknowledged me and let's face it, sometimes as God's church we've not acknowledged him in the fullness that we should have. But God says I will, I will strengthen you so that from the rising of the sun to the place of its setting people may know there is none beside me.I am the Lord. There is no other. I form the light and I create darkness.He's in charge. But this to me, I felt God saying what he will do with those who have submitted to the streamlining is he will enable us to take new kingdom territory because the Bible says that the glory of the Lord must cover the earth, that there is a great harvest to come and it's not done yet. So there is still work to do.See this should let us rise up amidst the dross that's going on in the world, amidst the shaking we feel in the church. We have purpose guys. We have a reason to get out of bed in the morning and so many people in the world don't and they're really struggling.But regardless of what's going on in the earth, we have a reason to get out of bed and it doesn't get any easier to get out of bed the older you get as well. So this is, we need all the help we can get. We need the glory and the strength of the Lord to give us purpose.Purpose gives you strength. Joy gives you strength but so does purpose.We're valuable. We have a reason to be here.We have stuff to do till the day we leave the earth. We have stuff to do. God is urging you to press through the streamlining, both personally and corporately, and encourage others.It's not just a vague fog with no end. It's not a liminal space with no door out the other end. It is preparing us for something really, really spectacular to come.Because God is moving, but he wants us to get to the point that when he releases a measure of his glory upon the earth, we will steward it well. It will not be a two-year revival and a couple of bits of the globe, and then boom, it's all gone again, and all the mess that ensues. It's for the great harvest.It's an ongoing restoration, a revival that is to revive God's church and revive people who don't know him, not just a flash in the pan. Then God said to me, think of the weapons that are streamlined. And the first thing that came into my mind was a torpedo.Now, remember to streamline a design or a form that represents very little resistance to a flow of air or water increasing speed and ease of movement. A torpedo moves deep, deep under the water. It's often covert ops, and it goes to take out the enemy.The second thing that I thought of was a rocket. Now, a rocket, instead of going deep under, goes high, goes into the airwaves, and goes to take out the enemy. But then you've got a rocket that would take humanity up into outer space.So now you've got a rocket, a streamlined form that has the ability to go through the natural atmosphere into a much wider view space to look down upon the earth and get a bigger view of what God is doing. This is what he is enabling us to do. From this time of streamlining, I saw God start to move through what he called secret weapons.Through believers and ministries that have come through the streamlining, have submitted themselves, he's going to use them, or I prefer the word co-create with them, to actually be secret weapons for the great harvest. I saw a pouring out of more divine wisdom for this task to those who can be trusted so that we don't have another flash in the pan, another disaster. It's those who have said, God, take away everything I do not need.No matter what that costs me, take it away from me. Streamline me, God, that I and the community of believers I minister with, that we might move through the spiritual atmosphere with more ease of movement because we do not give resistance to the Holy Spirit. Now, wisdom is a topic that has fascinated me for years and still does.The wisdom of God. And I saw God pouring out this wisdom and the secret weapons were actually going to come through things that we have diminished in the church, we have given lack of value to in the church through lack of understanding, because God likes to use the things that we've called foolish so that he can get the glory. Now, it's not the only way he's going to move, but I particularly saw these secret weapons coming through the things that we have not fully understood.One would be the fivefold giftings in their true place. There needs to be a reformation, not just lip service. And when we continue to be shepherd teacher led for another 6 billion years in the church, there actually needs to be a proper alignment of the fivefold.They're not a hierarchy, they're a function. They give honor to each other, but they need to be in their specific places for strategic advance. And the prophetic and the apostolic are very badly understood in the church globally.Pick a nation and it's like a different take on what they are. In the UK, we don't even, we don't even really, well in Scotland, we don't even really know what the apostolic is. Boy, do we need a restoration and a reformation.But when those five are in their right place, when the apostolic and the prophetic come together in their right place, they are the breakthrough of the five. It's not a hierarchy, remember. Everyone is a function, but if you take away the breakthrough ones, if you diminish them, if you make them kind of skew whiff in your thinking, then they can't break through.And that's why the church is stuck in many places, because you can't break through. You're just stuck kind of keeping the territory you've got. I believe that God wants to bring a restoration and a reformation to these things, because otherwise the church can't advance the kingdom across the earth.We can't break through. I believe that he also wants to bring understanding. This is obviously my life message, my bugbear, so it was going to come up.But I, it's actually when I wrote Limitless, it was 10 years ago. Actually, it was 11, 11 years ago, 11 years ago. And the Lord said to me, I said, what on earth am I writing? It just all came in downloads.And he said, this is going to be for the future. So for a few years, you're going to go and teach it and nobody's going to really understand what you're talking about. You know, it's like those prophets.He said, just go and tell them that they're really bad and they need to get their act together. They won't listen to you and they'll probably stone you, but I'm going to send you anyway. So it was one of those moments.Thanks very much, God. I'm going to spend years being humbled by people going, what is that lady talking about? But now I see it landing. Now I see it beginning to come into its time.It couldn't before some things were cleared away. Why? Because the creator is creative and he needs space to create. If we've got it all sewn up in our cyclical systems and programs, we don't need anything fresh.We don't need the breakthrough anointing, and we don't seek co-creation with God. He never wanted to do it alone. He created us to do it with him, but this needs space.We also diminish things like the arts in the church big time. And I think they're going to be some of God's secret weapons, the whole spectrum of the arts. The other thing we've diminished is the metaphorical, the symbolic, things like dreams, greatly diminished in many areas of the church.But the problem is if we diminish the mystical side of God, we fill the space with human control. And we have done that. And if we diminish divine co-creativity, we lose the ability to have cutting edge ideas, strategies, and solutions to influence every sphere of culture because we try and do itin our human power.The wisdom of God is just, well, we'd never be able to find the end of the meaning of this topic because it's so rich. But in Proverbs 8, God speaks about his wisdom like a persona being right there with him when he created the heavens and the earth. And he says, wisdom is the one speaking.I was right there with God when he created the heavens and the earth. And I was beside him like a master craftsman or a master builder. And wisdom, God's wisdom is a kingdom demonstration of crafting and forming something.It isn't just smart ideas. Wisdom creates, crafts, forms, and demonstrates the creator's creativity upon the earth. Four, back to 45, four is the number for God's creative works.Four seasons of the year, or all sorts of things that can represent in the Bible that show God's creative works. And five is usually the number for grace. How do we get in the fast flowing river of God? What's going on in the river? Because the numbers were in the river.God is going to break out with the creator's new creativity because he's in charge. Back to Psalm 45 and Isaiah 45, he holds the throne. And he is waiting for his church to give him space to do something new, but we wouldn't give him space.So he's made the space. I believe that's what's happened. I mean, before all this began, I thought,God, oh God, when are we going to give your Holy Spirit space in the church to co-create with us,to show us the way of the future, not just to run on repeat.And then when he began to reorder, I thought, whoa, okay, then there's a massive clearing going to happen before you can start to fill a space. That's what's happening. The liminal space is leading to a space.The streamlining, the getting rid of everything we don't need for the next season of the church creates a space. Zechariah 1, 18 to 21, the prophet Zechariah speaks to an angel. And the angel says and shows him, he's telling him that there is demonic entities that are oppressing the nations, big bad boys that are really causing whole nations to be oppressed.That hasn't changed then today. We have that going on today. And right there he says to Zechariah, but don't worry, God has a plan.And his plan, this is really cool, is to send four craftsmen, four craftsmen. And I love this word. He says these craftsmen, which today we just, we would think of knitters and quilters and woodworkers.But if you look at the wisdom of God as a master craftsman that co-creates with the sons and daughters of God, these craftsmen are going to be sent to terrify, it says, to terrify the demonic entities in the spheres of culture over nations in the earth. And I believe these craftsmen, the number four, God's creative works, are the men and women of God that will come through the streamlining, that will learn to finally co-create with God to bring the new release of strategies and solutions to see what's for the future that we can never see on our own. We keep trying to see it on our own and wondering why the church is confused.We cannot do this without him. And these craftsmen and women will be raised up like secret weapons to go into every area of culture. It's already begun, the real forerunners, but there are many, many more to come, I believe, many, many more.I believe that one day it won't be just a prophetic message for the future, but I believe we're really beginning to come into it. The Josephs, the Daniels, where are they going to allow, where are these people that will allow the streamlining of God to prepare them to strip away everything they don't need and to go where God sends them with the least resistance to the Holy Spirit, to be effective, to be a system that works well in the calling on their life to wherever God sends them. What does it look like when the wisdom of God rises up? This outpouring of wisdom for the secret weapons will be given to men and women who come through the streamlining well, who submit to it.What does wisdom look like when God poured it out on human beings on the earth? Solomon was given the biggest dose of wisdom for any human being that ever lived apart from Jesus. And Jesus kind of, well, let's face it, it was half God, half man. So it's a little bit of a cheat there.So Solomon was fully human who got the most wisdom, the Bible says, than anyone. And in Solomon's time, when he was doing really well, this wisdom looked like something. It didn't just sound like something, it tangibly looked like something people could experience.And it looked like a stunning effect on the culture. Solomon's catalytic combination of wisdom and creativity had a stunning impact, not only on the culture of Israel, but on the heathen surrounding nations around Israel. It looked like an explosion of genius strategy and intel for government, for trade, for commerce, for science, breakthroughs in science, in nature, in art, in architecture.As we transition through the streamlining, as we come through it going, God, I give up. I'm going to get out the way of your spirit and I'm going to give you space to show us what we don't know. I believe that God will begin to really co-create.As we come through it going, God, I give up. I'm going to get out the way of your spirit and I'm going to give you space to show us what we don't know. I believe that God will begin to really co-create.And when I gave Timothy the wrong scripture, I sent the wrong scripture, but 2 Chronicles it is, four to five was the next scripture that God gave me. It's the complete description of all the artistry and the furniture made for the temple of Solomon. And then five is what happens when Solomon did not see, he did not diminish the co-creativity of God.The temple was his first project, this nucleus of art and architecture that God designed as his worship centre. And when that was built, I think it's almost like a nuclear powerhouse. It just rippled out through society.And you read the stories of Solomon and watch that powerhouse changing areas of culture wider and wider until kings and queens across the earth heard, oh my Lord, wisdom looks like something. We got to get there. We can't just get a scroll from Solomon sent across the desert tous because wisdom is just in words.We got to get there. We got to experience the powerhouse of the wisdom of God being poured out on the earth. And they came in their droves.And Chronicles five talks about what happened when they honored God's design. They didn't diminish the creativity of God. They opened the doors and dedicated the temple and fire fell from heaven.The numbers 45 on the fast moving river of God. We have to let God be creative again. We have to give him space.It will cause a relinquishing of control and human logic. We're going to have to stop thinking we'resmarter than we actually are, people. We're just going to have to.We're going to have to stop thinking in the church that we've got this all sewn up because we really do not have this sewn up for the church of the future. There's plenty of wonderful systems and programs and things that God did in the past. God bless them.We're not diminishing any of that. But why do we think they're going to work for the next hundred years when we have a prophetic, creative God? My friend Sherry Trent and a dear friend of Streams, she said in one of our Zoom chats one day, we're not fighting for the prophetic as it used to be, but for a new creative prophetic to arise and show us the way. I love that.God wants to reveal to you and I the mechanisms of future church. What do they look like? So Father, I thank you, Lord. I pray that this message would be an encouragement because as we come through the streamlining, it's not pretty and it's not comfortable.But Lord, as we bring our fire or we bring ourselves to the altar rather, it is a fire to you, God, that smells good. It's a barbecue you enjoy because you know it's the stuff we don't need. It strips away, it streamlines away everything that we don't need.Help us submit. Help us submit as individuals. Help us submit as a corporate church on the earth.Help us be courageous pockets of Christians who are willing to clear the way and create the least resistance to the Holy Spirit moving on the earth in this day. Lord, I pray that you would prepare us that we might be raised up to be your secret weapons on the earth, that we might be willing to do that, God, to pay the cost. But also, Lord, it's going to be an awesome journey with the oil of joy poured out to give us strength, the bride being prepared for her amazing husband.Well, lots to think about there. And I'm joined here by Lindsay Patterson and Scott Brennan to discuss the streamlining teaching. So, Lindsay, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself?Well, I live just outside Perth in Scotland and my background is in healthcare.So, I registered as a speech and language therapist, worked in the NHS for 15 years. Laterally, I worked for the last 10 years in a secular charity supporting families with autism. But now, I've kind of left all that behind because I feel like God was calling me on a new adventure.So, I work one day a week as the director of Porch Scotland, which is leading a pioneering team to deliver training to help people plant new churches and to look at reaching new people to be able to share the gospel with them. So, that's a real privilege to be able to do that and to meet people who really feel that God is calling them out on mission. And then the other part of my working life is that I lead a missional project called In Together, which is about reaching out to families who've got children with additional support needs.So, when I was working in the charity, I kept thinking, where are all these families in church? Because they're not there and even if they did come, it would be probably a bit of an unmitigated disaster because the way that we do church wouldn't work for these families. And so, really beginning to think about how we create a new worshipping community that really fits those families and thinking with them about what that looks like. So, that's really what I get up to.But I'm delighted to be here today to chat a bit about the teaching. One of the things that this imagery session stuff is about is that we're trying to kind of mobilise the whole of the 5Q kind of ministry giftings. So, where do you sit in the kind of the 5Q spectrum of gifts and mix of things?So, my main gifting is shepherds but my second gifting is apostle and that is a bit of an unusual combination.And for anybody that knows anything about apostles, sometimes the apostles and the shepherds maybe don't get on as well because often the apostle is about looking towards the vision, where they might go yet. And the shepherd is often about caring for people and about making sure that you're bringing people with them. So, when my apostle and shepherd is working really well together in synergy together, it means that I'm looking for mission and looking for things and bringing people with them.When it's not working so well together, there is definitely a bit of a challenge and tension between the two that sometimes actually, it's a bit like a push me, pull me. There is a danger that sometimes I can get stuck. And I think that's one of the things that's really important about making sure that you have all the giftings represented.So, yeah. So, I'm a shepherd apostle. Great.It's lovely to have you. Thank you. Really appreciate that.And Scott, why don't you introduce yourself and say a bit about yourself? So, hi there. Good to be with everyone. I live on the whole island of Lindisfarne, just south of the border.And I'm part of the leadership of a new monastic community called the Community of Edenhilda. So, we have retreat houses, prayer rhythms happening on a daily basis. And I'm also the community builder for Cairns.That means I get to do a lot of work with leaders, building relationships and drinking cups of coffee with them. Most of my time is spent really looking at spiritual formation and healthy spiritual practices. And I do a lot of that stuff through coaching and spiritual direction.Great. And again, part of the 5Q kind of mix, what's your mix in all of that and how does that help us today? So, I tend to think of my top three working together. It depends on the context.When I worked for a large city centre church and I was a church planter as well, I was stronglyevangelistic. So, sometimes E will be my base gift. And then probably at the moment, I'm leaningmore into the A. So, either A or E would be first and second and P would be third.And so, people often see me as functioning like a prophetic evangelist, but my motivation is often quite apostolic. How do we break through? How do we create new foundations? And you always like to joke about the fact that you're a dyslexic ape. Yeah, I'm not sure whether that's politicallycorrect anymore.Yeah. Actually, Lindsay, you'd be able to tell us, is that appropriate or not? I think as long as it's done in good humour, then that's absolutely fine. I feel happier now.Oh, that's good. That's good. And in terms of my space in that, I would definitely, as someone who's more apostolic, I have to confess that when I do these tests, I always end up that my shepherd is almost non-existent.So, that's really good that Lindsay's on the call today to bring some sort of balance to that aspect of myself. But interestingly, I would sort of say that I'm a bit like Scott, I would be kind of strongly kind of A, E. And then interestingly, P, I've been writing a book recently. And I think, as I begin to kind of think about what's happening and where the church is going in the future, that's a more prophetic side of things is coming out.So, that's interesting, which leads us nicely into today's conversation, which is obviously a reflection on the teaching that we have from Charity Bowman Webb on streamlining. So, I just want to start by asking you, Lindsay, what struck you? I think, well, I think, first of all, being able to be in an APES team. So, prophetic is not my strongest.So, I think that's probably an important declaration that I give at the beginning. But actually, that's not why I'm here. I'm here to kind of take the prophetic teaching and then think about what does that mean, especially for my shepherd and how that thing.So, I think one of the things that really struck me was I saw the echo in everywhere around me. You know, when you look at the church in Scotland just now, but also in wider spheres as well, there is an enormous disruption happening. So, that's one of the things around prophetic teaching.I always kind of stop and ask, can I see this? Does it relate to the circumstances that I see around me? And I would definitely agree with that. I see massive disruption happening in institutions, but also in people, people who have been godly people that have really worked hard for God. And all of a sudden, I think the bit that Charity was talking about is sitting on the seat and feeling like it'sgot marbles on it.And all of a sudden, what seemed okay about maybe even three or four years ago, all of a sudden does not feel to satisfy or feel as comfy as it did. So, and I think the other thing that really stood out for me is that there is a purpose to this streamlining, that this disruption is not happening for no reason at all, that there's a reason that God is doing this. And that's really important for us to be attentive to, because what is it then that God is creating this disruption? What transformation is he looking for out of that? Yeah, and for you, Scott, what was the main thing that struck you? Yeah, I liked the concept of streamlining.And it made me think of geese flying in a V shape. And there's a kind of air dynamic as the geese fly forward, they fly. I suppose my concern with some of the APES teaching is that we focus on the individual gifts rather than focus on Christ.So, Christ is all five. And therefore, the actual streamlining and the shape that we're after is the shape of Christ. And so, if we're going to form Christ, then we need all five.And so, that really spoke to me. And so, I love the idea of streamlining, but I also like the idea that it's moving forward through a liminal space. And so, in terms of the prophetic, prophetic is often slightly ahead of the curve, like Lindsay said.So, yeah, I love this concept of streamlining. That probably is the thing for me that you talkedabout liminality and just that whole thing of the idea that we're living in a place that's in between.Yeah, we're dislocated from where we are.We haven't yet got to where we want to be. But actually, we need to live in this space. And the living in the space of liminality is actually not purposeless.It's not, you know, we need to kind of put our life on hold until we get to the next thing. There's actually something else going on now, which I think is really significant. And I think that that's actually really helpful because it begins to, well, I mean, for me, certainly, I'm conscious of the fact that there's lots and lots of people who, you know, you picked up on the thing as they're kind of sitting in the marbles and, you know, just feeling uncomfortable and not being able to kind of go back to where we were before.And I think that that actually is for a lot of people true. But I think that actually the benefit of this teaching to me, certainly, was it begins to articulate something of an explanation of that, of what is actually happening. It helps to kind of validate, I think, where people are.And it helps to also give them pointers towards how they can navigate the way through this, but also what it is that's actually kind of coming as we move forward. And that was really encouraging. I mean, for me, that was probably the, that's probably the bit that was most helpful in terms of the kind of teaching.Is that kind of affirmed? It kind of affirms what people are feeling. And I think a lot of people have been feeling, is this just me? Is there something wrong with me? Is there something about my faith? And I think one of the things that I just heard is that this is a process that we're all going through. And there's challenges with that when we're all going through something together.We all know that from COVID. But it kind of affirms the move that's happening. And I think that allows people to kind of rest a little bit in it.One of the things I would say is that certainly within Streams Ministries, they've put a strong emphasis, not just on gift, but also on character. And in the liminal spaces where character is really developed, because it kind of tests your response to this place of uncertainty. So yeah, it's really important we talk about this. And presumably part of the thing, part of the challenge is actually that not everybody's in the same place in terms of how they feel about church and how they feel about what's going on. So in one sense, I think it's probably slightly easier for people like us who are more kind of orientated towards the kind of the future and more towards the kind of pioneering side of things because suddenly we kind of go, oh that makes sense and that explains what's going on.But actually there are those who are very much embedded within existing church patterns and who in one sense don't necessarily kind of feel as though they can really move. I'm conscious Scott, you talk to a lot of existing church leaders, people who are actually looking after church asit is. So I suppose my question for you then in that is, how would they hear this kind of message?Is this a positive thing for them or is this challenging? I think it's both.I think it's challenging because they've been trained to maintain a system that is collapsing and they know that. They're not sticking their head in the sand, they're watching the whole kind of post-Christendom experience. So that's very hard.Where it's also challenging is that for some of them, they're trained to be shepherds, they're trained to be teachers, they're not trained to be apostles, prophets and evangelists. So that's a real challenge. And so I think where we can really help is to bring people in that situation into an environment that supports and encourages them and maybe gives them a theological framework.So yeah, that's an important work. Yeah, yeah, that's good. Let's chat a wee bit about what did you find challenging in what charity was sort of saying? Lyndi? Yeah, there was one bit for me that just really stood out and I think she said, only by submitting to the streamlining will we be given new territory.I mean, somebody that's got apostolic gifting, that kind of stops you in your path because actually there's a process, I think as Scott just alluded to there, there's a process that's very personalabout your own character. And God is really calling us, I think really humbling us and really helping us address our human limitations. And I think we've probably come through an era where knowledge has been given huge kudos and we've thought that we can knowledge and understandour way into doing church.And I think God should be saying that actually knowledge has its place, don't get me wrong, it's really important. And we want people to learn, but we also want people to be able to practice abiding and co-creating with God. And so that whole bit of stopping and submitting to the streamlining, that actually that is a necessary process that you have to go through.You're not going to get to the other place by just getting a fast pass. It's not like monopoly. You can't just go straight to go, that there's a process that we all have to go through.And the treasure for that at the end of it is that God has got something amazing for us. That's the other bit that I heard. So the challenge and also that there's a new way of doing something.Yeah, that's good. That's great. And for you, Scott, what was challenging in it? Yeah, I think the challenge for me with a prophetic perspective is always feeling a little frustrated because the apostle and evangelist in me wants to push forward faster.We're listening to Charity talk. She's talking about waiting, watching, discernment, all that kind of stuff. And all of those things are quite slow processes.For me, the challenge is definitely, and this is part of new monastic approach as well, is to try and discern things before you jump in with both feet. So yeah, that always frustrates me a little bit, but it's good to recognise that. Yeah, that's true.That's true. The thing that kind of, this is a bit cheeky really, but I want to say the thing that I really found challenging was actually the way that she taught, if I can be like that. And I love Charity and I really kind of appreciate the teaching.But I suppose, you know, I was certainly taught, so I was brought up through the Church of Scotland, you know, taught in the kind of pastor-teacher mode. I went to theological college, learned how to preach, did all the other things that I did. And actually what they would do is they would kind of sort of say, you start with the scriptures and you do this and you bring illustrations and you begin to kind of take it from there.But I think that probably the thing that really kind of challenged me as someone who isn't wired prophetically in that same sort of way as Charity was, was just the kind of the way that she started with a dream. And, you know, she started with this dream she endeavoured to, and then she began to kind of explain it. And then, and then we got scripture and bits and bobs and here and there and all the rest of it.And, and actually, I suppose for, I'm thinking about people who are listening to the teaching just now who perhaps aren't necessarily wired that way. And I suppose I would, I suppose my question to you guys is how did you cope with that? Was that easy? Difficult? Did you, did you have, do you have the same sort of issues that I had where I was sort of going, oh, what on earth is this? And how do you get from there to there? And how do you get started? It made me, it made me think of the Beatles lyric, magical mystery tour. Oh, you're going to get into trouble when Charity hears that, my friend.I did think, where is this going? And then, then the plane was landed, which was great. Yeah, that's right. That's right.Yeah. I think I have, as somebody that's not prophetically gifted, I always struggle withprophetically teaching because I, I feel I need that structure, Alan, that you were talking about.And I have that question of where, where are we going? And I've just learned now, just technology,you feel a bit anxious because you don't know where it's going, but sit with it.And sometimes I think as well, the other thing with prophetic, I know I need more than one lesson. So I nearly need to listen to it to hear where it's going and then go back and listen again for the implications or for the things that are important for me to, to apply. Would you not think that must also be true for prophetic people when they listen to very structured talks? Oh, I think they must find it so limiting.Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.That's, I'm sure that's true. I'm sure it is. One of the lovely things about the kind of the way that students' ministry teaches though, is that actually they're, they're very systematic about the whole thing of, you know, when you get revelation, like a dream, you know, you don't just simply kind of just get the dream and then that's it.You, you then have to go through another process, which is interpreting it. So what does that actually mean? And you began to kind of hear her as she began to kind of talk about the numbers and about the illustrations and the pictures and what the colours mean and all that kind of stuff. And then beyond the interpretation is actually the third phase, which is the application, which is really, and what does this mean for us today? And so there is obviously a kind of a clear process that she's going through.And I think that's really helpful. And I think for me, the other thing, sorry, can you go? I'm just going to say the other thing it really made me realise is there is so much more that God has for us that sometimes we're blind to. And it's only when we're in the apest, as you were saying, Scott, the fullness of all the apest, actually can we see all of who God is.And so that being able to lean into other people's giftings really illuminates something that Iprobably would never have seen. I think what's also true is that when you get people who are prophetic teachers, they bring out incredible layers from Scripture. So I remember there was a prophetic teacher called Alan Vincent, and he would teach on obscure subjects like the priesthood of Melchizedek and go into Hebrews, and it would just blow your mind what he would see in Scripture.So I love that combination of the prophet and the Yeah, and what we got, actually, as we sort of, as Charity took us through the whole of the teaching was, she then layered in, you know, here's Scripture that actually sits on top of, you know, what she's actually saying, and reinforces and emphasises the kind of teaching that she's kind of bringing, which was great. I still, I have to confess, I still kind of, I don't really understand where numbers and what they represent comes from. I don't get that at all.But that's one of my kind of bugbears. It's kind of colours and numbers, when I kind of listen tothe kind of prophetic guys, I still don't understand any of that. But I'm sure that's me rather than them.But anyway, that's, that's just around the kind of challenging stuff. What one thing then, you know, as we, as we kind of think about the teaching, what one thing, you know, would you want to take away, Lindsay, that would really kind of be the thing that you think, right, this is actually the thing that I think really needs to be emphasised. It's the, it's the one thing that actually I would hope people would take away.I feel there was a really strong message for us to be prepared to learn from the discomforts,rather than resist it. That's good. And that actually, the discomfort is really highlighting something to you that God wants you to pay attention to.So, you know, rather than numbing, ignoring or minimising the emotion, acknowledge what is the emotion that you're feeling and ask, why do we feel like that? And then, you know, what is God showing us from that? And I think we really have to be prepared that he's going to be showing us some things about our identity and character that are probably going to make us feel a bit uncomfortable. But actually, he's really beginning to show us actually, these kind of strongholds of productivity are really unhealthy for us. And how are we going to let go of some of those things? I think that's some of the questions that I really took away.And for personally, for me, you know, as somebody who loves to be productive, there was definitely a reflection for me of how do I create space, not to be busy doing and creating outcomes and taking things off my list. How do I create space for God, for me and God just to hang out and for him to really minister to me? Wow, that's great. That's really helpful.Thank you. And Scott, what about you? What would, what one thing would you want to emphasise or take away? I think the thing that came to me through our talk was the very real danger of creating silos. So what I mean is, you know, if we are going to streamline fivefold, let's not spin off into, you know, a prophetic church or an evangelistic church or an apostolic church or whatever.I think there's a very real danger as fivefold comes into the floor that we do that. And I canunderstand why, you know, people talk about, well, this is a teaching centre or I get good pastoralcare here. And prophetic people can do exactly the same thing.They can all gather around each other because it's comfortable. So a bit like Lindsay's saying, let's, let's mix with one another. Let's honour one another.Let's respect each other. Yeah. And I think probably for me, I would say that actually it was a sort of, it was a future focused kind of element of the thing that really kind of encouraged me.And I, again, that's, that's, that's a place to my apostolic focus and kind of gifted, doesn't it? So it's, you know, I'm thinking about, you know, how can we actually make progress? What can we do? How can we move forward? What can we do that would allow us to actually kind of take new ground? How can we position ourselves for what is to come? You know, and so for me, that's the,that to me is the essence of this kind of whole teaching is actually, you know, this is about, about transitioning ourselves through this liminal space and allowing us to kind of, you know, to, to know that God is with us in that. And actually this time, this, this period of, of, of transition and change is actually, it's, it's meaningful, significant, it's important, and it's something that actually is leading us towards what we want to do. And I think, you know, for me, that, that's the bit that I particularly want to kind of emphasise.And it's certainly something which I felt was a real encouragement as well. So, yeah. So any, any last thoughts or anything that you'd like to kind of reflect as you kind of go then, Lindsay? Anything that you would like to kind of say to folks as they've listened to this? No, just a reflection, actually, that is really interesting.In our different giftings, we've really brought out different things from the teaching. And so that's just really interesting. So just thanks, guys, for, because you brought out things that I didn't see.So I just wanted to acknowledge that. And Scott, what about you? Any last thoughts? If I was more of a shepherd, then I would make everyone feel good too, just like Lindsay did. Well, shepherds don't always make people feel good.Sometimes they highlight the things they didn't pay attention to. Exactly, exactly. Well, listen, thank you.Really appreciate all that you kind of contributed today. And I just want to say thank you for listening, folks. And I really appreciate the fact that actually you've been able to kind of enjoy this teaching, but also the chat amongst us as we reflected on it as part of the Synergy Sessions.Have a great day. Bye. Bye now.Thanks for listening to the Synergy Sessions podcast. We hope that you've been inspired by what you've heard, and we hope that that encourages you as you press in for what God has got for you in the future.